I think the interpretation of worship as displayed in this short message is absurd!  I am not Catholic, but to draw a conclusion that the Pope is the beast is wrong.  I believe, your belief in Jesus, the Son of God comes from your heart, mind and soul.  It is your spiritual/personal relationship with God, and faith that determines who you are and if youre "right" with the Lord.  The hand you kiss or when you kneel is irrelavent.  I can only conclude that kissing the Pope's hand is an expression of endearment for someone of similar faith and one who has dedicated his life to the church.  It is not an acknowledgement that the Pope is God or has God-like ability.  We all know the Pope is human, and is subject to error just like us.  The world leaders are human and subject to error.  We can only pray that the decisions they make (world leaders...to include the Pope) are the right ones.  Injustices will ultimately be left up to God to deal with.  If your faith and belief is the same as mine...we both know that God will always even the score. 

 

Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind, I'd like to respond to what you said.

Norm: I am not Catholic, but to draw a conclusion that the Pope is the beast is wrong.

Reply: When you say it is wrong to identify the Popes, or the Roman Church, as Anti-Christian, or as Antichrists', you reject a tremendous history of pronouncements by faithful martyrs who resisted her and her doctrines. I hope you are not implying that they died for nothing in their understanding of truth, and in their efforts to resist heresy to the death.  

It is part of PROTESTANT understanding to protest against the Catholic Church and her Gnostic Mystery Religion leaders because of a clear understanding of who she is in comparison to God's Word. By definition, a Protestant that does not protest against her false techings and deviant behavior is not a Protestant, but is instead an "Ecumenist", and therefore part of her effort  (intentional or not) to create the "Universal Religion" that she spearheads through worldwide Ecumenuical Conferences, Interfaith meetings, and repetitive Ecumenical Councils throughout the ages (such as Vatican II) that have brought in damnable heresies in the effort to corral apostate masses . The word "Catholic" means "Universal". Our Christian forfathers knew the identity of the Catholic Church and stated so quite openly. Because of their understanding, the Reformation took place, as both Catholic Priests and pew warmers took flight from her to follow Christ, leaving the Catholic Church in the dust from their feet. The Catholic Church responded with the "Counter Reformation", the Council of Trent, inquisitions, Crusades, and the Jesuit military order.  Many Reformer leaders were either killed, tortured, or put to flight for their vocal pronouncements to expose the heresy.  Here are some quotes to ponder. Do you think their evaluations were also absurd?

John Huss: Writing of the Pope said, "Antichrist laboureth to trouble you..know ye, well-beloved, that Antichrist being stirred up against you deviseth divers persecutions".

Lord Cobham: In 1417 said, "As touching the Pope and his spirituality.. I know him by the Scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the Son of perdition, the open adversary of God, and an abomination standing in the holy place.

"William Tyndale who is responsible for most of you modern day bible: In 1536 wrote, "The Bishop of Rome and his sects...be the right Antichrists, and deny both the Father and the Son.

Bishop Ridley: "The see of Rome is the see of Satan, and the Bishop of the same...is Antichrist himself indeed."

Archbishop Cranmer: "As for the Pope, I refuse him as Christ's enemy, and Antichrist, with all his false doctrines.

"John Knox: "The Pope is the head of the Kirk Antichrist...I have no more doubt but that...the Pope..be the Man of Sin of whom the Apostle speaketh, than I doubt that Jesus Christ suffered by the procurement of the visible Church of Jerusalem.

"Martin Luther:"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that I do Antichrist.

"John Calvin:"Some persons think us too severe when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge...against Paul.

"Philip Melanchthon: "It is most manifest, and without any doubt true, that the Roman Pontiff, with his whole order and kingdom, is the very Antichrist.

"Irish Articles of Faith (adopted in 1615):"The Bishop of Rome...be that 'man of sin', foretold in the holy Scriptures.

"Westminster Confession of Faith: "The Pope of Rome...is that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ.

"Savoy Declaration: "The Pope of Rome...is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition.

"Baptist Confession 1688: "The Pope of Rome...is no other than Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition.

"John Wesley: The Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin...and he is too..the son of perdition...he it is that opposeth himself to the emperor..and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

"Richard Baxter: "If the Pope be not Antichrist, he hath the ill luck to be so much like him."

To this list could be added Zwingli, Beza Bucer, Latimer, Bunyan, Milton, Edwards, Matthew Henry, Toplady, Charnock, Sibbs, Owen, Wylie, Moody, Hudson Taylor and a myriad of the greatest saints and martyrs.

No, there is no other suitable candidate. There is no other prime suspect. In the person and line of the papacy we see unmasked the villain of all ages. We know the Pope of Rome, who he is, and in Christ's name we denounce him as the Antichrist, the Man of Sin and son of perdition.

For a thousand years and more, separatist Bible-believing Christians have identified Rome with the Harlot of Revelation 17.

At the end of the NINTH CENTURY, "Tergandus, Bishop of Treves, called the Pope antichrist, yea, a wolf, and Rome, Babylon" (Martyrs Mirror, 5th English edition, p. 240). In THE TENTH CENTURY, Arnulphus, Bishop of Orleans, called the Pope Antichrist, in a full council at Rheims (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of Piedmont, 1821, p. 229). In THE ELEVENTH CENTURY, Berenger of Tours denounced Rome's dogmas and maintained that the Roman Church was the See of Satan (George Faber, The History of the Ancient Vallenses and Albigenses, 1838, p. 159). THE WALDENSIANS, throughout their long history, identified the Pope as the Antichrist. The Waldensian treatise titled the Noble Lesson, dated 1100 A.D., stated: "Antichrist, the predicted murderer of the Saints, hath already appeared in his true character, seated monarchally in the seven-hilled city." In 1120 or 1160 A.D., A Treatise Concerning Antichrist identified the Pope of Rome as the Antichrist. George Faber identifies this as a production of Peter the Valdo (Faber, pp. 379-384). In 1206, at the conference of Montreal, the ALBIGENSES made the following confession: "That the Church of Rome was not the spouse of Christ, but the Church of confusion, drunk with the blood of the martyrs. That the polity of the Church of Rome was neither good nor holy, nor established by Jesus Christ" (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, 1821 edition, first published in 1692, p. 178). The BOHEMIANS, a colony of Waldenses in Bohemia, held the following beliefs, according to the Roman Inquisitor. This description was given in the 14th century but uses material from the 13TH CENTURY: "The first error, saith he, is that the Church of Rome is not the Church of Jesus Christ, but an assembly of wicked men, and the whore that sits upon the beast in the Revelation. ... They declare the Pope to be the head and ringleader of all errors" (Allix, Ancient Churches of Piedmont, pp. 242-259). The LOLLARDS of the 14TH AND 15TH CENTURIES maintained "that the Church of Rome was not the Church of Christ, but of infidel heathens; and they despised all ecclesiastical laws, together with all the Bishops and Ministers of the Church" (Allix, Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, p. 230). The Petrobusians judged the Pope to be the Antichrist (Allix, Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, p. 142). Throughout the Reformation era, Rome was considered the Mother of Harlots. On September 9, 1560, Pastor Jean Louis Paschale of Calabria, just before he was burned alive in the presence of Pope Pius IV in Rome, turned to the Pope and "arraigned him as the enemy of Christ, the persecutor of his people, and the Anti-Christ of Scripture, and concluded by summoning him and all his cardinals to answer for their cruelties and murders before the throne of the Lamb" (J.A. Wylie, History of the Waldenses, c1860, p. 120). All of the REFORMATION leaders considered the Pope the Antichrist, including Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Huss; their successors in the 16TH, 17TH, 18TH, AND 19TH CENTURIES persisted in this. Bible translator William Tyndale identified the Pope as the Antichrist in his treatise The Practice of Prelates and in the Preface to the 1534 edition of his New Testament. Many of the early Protestant Bibles contained dramatic wood cuttings portraying the Scarlet Woman of Revelation 17, plainly identifying the Roman Catholic Church with this apostate religious system. In his 1893 work titled Union with Rome, Bishop Christopher Wordsworth of the Church of England stated the view which prevailed among Protestants at that time: "... we tremble at the sight, while we read the inscription, emblazoned in large letters, 'Mystery, Babylon the Great,' written by the hand of St. John, guided by the Holy Spirit of God, on the forehead of the Church of Rome." These examples could be multiplied almost endlessly. Old-line Protestants, Baptists, and other Fundamentalist Christians continue TODAY to identify Rome with Revelation 17.

For example, there are hundreds of thousands of Fundamental Baptists scattered throughout the world who so identify Rome. I believe the Roman Catholic Church is the partial fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelation 17 of a one-world religious Harlot. This is not to say that Revelation 17 is entirely fulfilled by Roman Catholicism. This prophecy will not be completed until the reign of the Antichrist just prior to the coming of the Lord, and Rome will be joined by a conglomeration of other apostate churches and organizations, the end result, no doubt, of the present Ecumenical Movement. Even so, every feature of this religious Harlot is found in the Roman Catholic Church: Yoked together with secular government, having great wealth, clothed in purple and scarlet, drunk with the blood of the saints.

Let's not forget that the first English Geneva study bible clearly stated that the Pope and Rome was the Great Whore of Rev 17, and the fourth beast of Daniels vision.

Though you believe the identification of the Rome and the Pope as above is off the mark, I believe the greatest theologians of all time would disagree with you. I believe the scriptures are quite clear in the identification of Rome as the Whore of Rev 17.  

Norm: I believe, your belief in Jesus, the Son of God comes from your heart, mind and soul.  It is your spiritual/personal relationship with God, and faith that determines who you are and if youre "right" with the Lord.

Reply: I agree with you. But those beliefs do not counter the evidence that Rome is a wolf in sheeps clothing, and that the Pope is the current figure head of the "Ancient Mystery Religions" that have ran things behind the scenes for centuries on end in warfare against God and his annointed. It was the Mystery Religion pagans of Rome and Greece that had the early Christians killed, until the Catholic Church inherited the power of Pagan Rome and took upon herself the pagan festivities and called them Christian. I would recommend Fox's book of Martyrs chapter three and four to gain a better understanding of the Roman Wolf that entered God's coup and had a feast for two thousand years, and continues to this day instigating wars and turmoil for political advancement. Click here for the Chapter index. Click here for chapter IV. Another important book relating to the modern history of this was written by the pope's biograpgher Cornwell, "Hitler's Pope".

Norm: The hand you kiss or when you kneel is irrelavent.

Reply: When a man claims to be God, or the "vicar" (replacement) of Christ, it is imperative not to bow, kiss the ring, or kiss the slippers of the Pope as John Kerry, Taft, of three generations of Bush's have done in order to be faithful to the one true God. These assertions are clear examples of blasphemy. The kissing of the slippers is a Babylonian ritual that has been handed down through the Mystery Religions.  The book "The Two Babylons" written by Alexander hislop in the 1800's explains that well. Click here to get started. Click here...Section I. The Sovereign Pontiff  to read about Papal adortion, slippers, Babylonian preceedent, etc. "Mystery Babylon" as prophesized in Rev 17 is clearly exposed.

Deuteronomy 5:6-22

6 'I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 'You shall have no other gods before Me. 8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. 

 

Historical Quotes from Catholic Sources

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".

 

Pius IX: "Alone I am the successor of the apostles, the vicar of Jesus Christ; I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

 

“...We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..." Pope Leo XIII, in Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae (The Reunion of Christendom), Encyclical promulgated on June 20, 1894.

 

Many are aware of the letters inscribed in the Pope's miter (crown) but few understand it's meaning.  The words are: "Vicarius Filii Dei", which is Latin for 'Vicar of the Son of God.'  Here we have the Catholic explanation of this phrase:

"Catholics hold that the Church, which is a visible society, must have a visible head. Christ before His ascension into heaven, appointed St. Peter to act as his representative...hence to the Bishop of Rome, as head of the Church, was given the title, 'Vicar of Christ.'  (Our Sunday Visitor, [Catholic Weekly] Bureau of Information, Ind., April 18,1915.)

 

"The pope is the supreme judge of the law of the land....He is the vicegerent of Christ, and is not only a priest forever, but also King of kings and Lord of lords." (La Civilta Cattolica, March 18, 1871 quoted in "An Inside View of the Vatican Council" by Leonard Woosely Bacaon, p 229, American Tract Society

 

"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, in Allocution for the 25th Anniversary of His Election, given on February 20, 1903 [quoted in "Papal Teachings: The Church", by the Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653].)

 

"All the names which are attributed to Christ in Scripture, implying His supremacy over the church, are also attributed to the Pope.” (Robert Bellarmine, in Disputationes de Controversiis, "On the Authority of Councils", book 2, Chapter 17.)

 

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh." (Catholic National, July, 1895)

 

"...the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." (Pope Nicholas I, quoted in History of the Councils, vol. IX, Dist.: 96, Can 7, "Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para", by Labbe and Cossart.)

 

Above is a papal tiara presented to Pius IX by Belgium in 1871, which on the portion visible in the photo is inscribed CHRISTI VICARIO - IN TERRA - REGUM.  CHRISTI VICARIO is on the upper crown, IN TERRA is on the middle crown, and REGUM is on the lower crown, as shown enlarged above at right. Click on the picture of the tiara to view the full sized picture. The complete inscription (including text on the unseen sides) may be:

 

BEATI PIETRO CHRISTI VICARIO

RECTORI ORBIS SVPREMO IN TERRA

POPVLORVM PATRI REGVM ATQVE

 

which translates to:

 

To Blessed Peter Vicar of Christ

To the Supreme Governor of the World on Earth

To the Father of Nations and Kings

 

Pius IX: "Alone I am the successor of the apostles, the "vicar" (meaning substitute) of Jesus Christ; I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

 

Innocent III: "We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God."

 

 

Norm:  It is not an acknowledgement that the Pope is God or has God-like ability.  We all know the Pope is human, and is subject to error just like us.

 

Reply: The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible. I am glad that you don't think so, but then again, you are not Catholic.

 

According to Catholic doctrine, the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine, faith and morals.

The Catechism restates the same belief this way:

Sadly, this doctrine is but another tradition of men that contradicts Scripture. The Bible declares that all people are sinners. No one is perfect or infallible in anything:

Notice, you didn't read, " no one, except the pope." Jesus is the only infallible person who ever lived:

Are other Catholics infallible too?

The Catechism further alleges that other Catholic leaders have also somehow achieved this state of infallibility:

It is important to understand that God did not declare these people to be infallible, other sinful men did.

Scriptures overflow with stories of sinful people. Even those whom God used the most were sinners. God referred to King David as "a man after mine own heart" (Acts 13:22), yet David was a murderer and an adulterer, among other things.

The Apostle Paul and all the other apostles were sinners. Paul said of himself:

Nobody in Scripture, except Jesus, was infallible.

 

Norm: The world leaders are human and subject to error Injustices will ultimately be left up to God to deal with.  If your faith and belief is the same as mine...we both know that God will always even the score.

 

Reply: I agree with you that God will always even the score.

 

Abnd since Satan is the "Prince and power of the air", and the "Ruler of this world", it is  our job as Ambassadors of Christ to war against Satan by speaking truth to his worldly agents like the POPE, Cardinals, Priests, and all other like minded Pagans who polute the word of God and enslave mankind under Satans Yoke. That kind of voice had John the Baptist beheaded, and had Christ and the Apostles killed. We are expected to follow in the footsteps of Christ, expecting the same rejection. We are to expect it, or else to expect that something is wrong with our faith and actions.

 

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, ^F19 against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1Co 15:24 - Show Context

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus said...."The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil."    Joh 7:7 - Show Context

 

 

Thanks for responding. I hope going over the scriptures and Catholic Dogma is helpful to you like it is for me.

Take Care.

Art